Sandor Katz
Interview by Megan Cole
When it comes to the world of fermented foods (sauerkraut, kimchi, mead, sour pickles, etc.), Sandor Katz is Yoda. He has inspired people to pursue what could simply be seen as “rotten food” in a way that encourages good health and eating. With the traditional food preservation process of fermentation gaining popularity again, Katz sees the interest as a natural progression. Katz is a DIY food activist, self-described “fermentation fetishist” and the author of Wild Fermentation: The Flavor, Nutrition, and Craft of Live-Culture Foods, The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved: Inside America’s Underground Food Movements and The Art of Fermentation: An In-Depth Exploration of Essential Concepts and Processes from Around the World.
How did you become interested in fermentation?
It was a little bit of a gradual process. As a kid growing up in New York City, I loved sour pickles. I wasn’t thinking about fermentation. Nobody was explaining to me that they were fermented, but this flavour that is only created through fermentation is a flavour that I found very compelling. I was drawn to the flavour of fermentation. In my mid-’20s for a few years I was following the macrobiotic diet, and macrobiotics is kind of where I first began to associate certain kinds of fermented foods with good digestion and good health. Macrobiotics places an emphasis on eating a pickle or live ferment with every meal as a digestive stimulant, and what I noticed during that time is whenever I would eat the pickles that I loved, or sauerkraut, or other kinds of lactic acid foods I could literally feel my salivary glands squirting as I began eating these foods. In a very tangible way I began associating these foods with getting your digestive juices flowing. But I still wasn’t really practicing fermentation, and what sort of spurred me to start making sauerkraut was when I moved from New York City to rural Tennessee 21 years ago and started keeping a garden, and all the cabbage is ready at the same time in a garden, all the radishes are ready at the same time, so what got me investigating fermentation for myself was the practical necessity of preserving the harvest.
Even though fermentation is becoming more popular, do you ever find there are people who think of it as just rotten food?
People who think of fermented food as “rotten” are just ignorant. They are eating cheddar cheese, they are putting it in their fridge and don’t realize that originally that was a strategy for preserving milk without refrigeration, but everyone eats products of fermentation. There is a certain inevitability to the macrobial change of our food. Every food tradition around the world that I’ve been able to learn anything about incorporates fermentation, and if people are squeamish about it’s just because in the last couple generations… I mean, here’s the thing, for 10,000 years fermentation was shrouded in mystery, nobody really knew what was going on. 150 years ago Louis Pasteur identified yeast and bacteria. Shortly after he discovered those things, in a fermentation context, were the discovery of some pathogenic bacteria, so in the popular imagination pathogens and microorganisms became associated with disease and death. But for 10,000 years before that everyone was fermenting, and really ever since then people have been fermenting. But those who aren’t directly involved in fermentation are grossed out by the idea of it, because we have all been indoctrinated to believe that bacteria are the enemies.
There seems to be a parallel movement happening alongside what is going on with fermented foods, where people have a “fresh is best” attitude. How do you feel about that attitude?
Compared to anytime that I’ve been involved in this, I think there is more of a resurgence of interest in all things fermented. Sure, fresh is best, but I don’t necessarily think that people think eating pickled things is a bad thing. People enjoy all sorts of fermented things, and certainly the commercial sales of live culture vegetables have risen dramatically in recent years. They are available in more places. Look at the explosion of kombucha. There is a huge interest in things that people specifically know are fermented. Chefs are getting interested in fermentation and there is a lot more in-house fermentation in restaurants. There is ignorance, but I would argue there is actually less and less ignorance as there is greater interest in fermentation.
Everything from pickling to brewing craft beer is growing in popularity. Why do you think this resurgence of fermentation is happening now?
I would say is that the resurgence of interest in fermentation is a reflection of a broader interest in becoming more connected to the sources of our food; understanding where food comes from and having a role in food production. Fermentation was part of every community, if not every household, until, say, 75 years ago, and over the course of the twentieth century the trajectory was fewer people being involved in food production and it happening more specialized facilities at a larger scale. For the most part, at least in the early stages of the process, people were thrilled to be less involved in food production and embraced convenience and the model of the mass production of food. It basically took a couple of generations for people to start recognizing that along with the wonders of convenience were coming all these unintended consequences, like food of diminished nutritional quality produced by methods that are environmentally destructive, the removal of food production from the communities having economic repercussions… For reasons of health, for reasons of environmental sanity, for reasons of economics and localism, people have been recognizing there were some costs associated with all this increased convenience and I think that’s why we are seeing this resurgence of interest in local food and being more connected to our food, because if we aren’t connected to our food than we eat really bad quality food. People are recognizing that they have to take control of their food, and part of that is having a garden, part of it is supporting local farmers and part of that is understanding these basic transformational processes by which the products of agriculture become our food, and fermentation is just incredibly important in that light.
In addition to just the great flavour of fermented foods, a lot of people are drawn to them for their health benefits.
The health benefits are some of the major reasons why people are interested in fermented foods and beverages. I think it is related to what we were talking about earlier where we were all indoctrinated with the idea that bacteria are bad and dangerous, and associated with disease and death. I think that the news about the human micro biome and medical research is basically beginning to develop a much more nuanced understanding of the idea that we need bacteria, and we can’t afford to kill all the bacteria and we depend on it. I think people are recognizing that there are all these factors in our modern lives antibiotic drugs, anti-bacterial cleansing products, chlorinated water that are having a detrimental impact on our gut bacteria, and what are some foods that can replenish and diversify our gut bacteria. There are all these traditional fermented foods that do just that. Perceived health benefit is a large reason why people are becoming more interested in fermentation.
Learn more about Sandor Katz’ books and workshops here.
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