Fermentation crock and weight by Kirby and Kraut (photo: © Kirby and Kraut)
Interview by Megan Cole
Fermentation may be an old-school preservation technique, but Queens, New York-based Kirby and Kraut, founded by Eric Iversen and Nicole Tschampel, is combining old and new. Based on their love of fermentation, backgrounds in art and design, and the new world of social media, Kirby and Kraut not only makes modern and beautiful crocks, lids and weights, but they also play an important role in the growing international community of fermenters, who find each other on the internet. We caught up with Iversen and Tschampel via Facetime.
How did you guys first get involved in fermentation?
Iversen: It was 2011 or so, I went to my brother-in-law’s sister’s biodynamic farm in Northern California. I tagged along on their family vacation. I actually brought her this really old cheese-making book, because it’s a dairy farm and she makes cheese. She was very excited about it and we started talking and swapping books. She asked if I had ever made fermented foods like sauerkraut, because I am really into cooking and had done a lot of cooking that week. They had a copy of Wild Fermentation [by fermentation expert Sandor Katz] and I read it in a hammock on vacation. Nicole really likes pickles and sour foods in general, and when I got back I asked her if she wanted to try fermentation. That was the beginning of it. We basically did one batch and Nicole liked it so much that she said we have to make a lot more of this.
Tschampel: I said, “We’ve got to go bigger; we’ve got to make a lot more and ramp up production.”
Iversen: And so we started making a lot more of it. That was when we started to think about making the crocks, and especially the tops and weights.
It seems like the east coast has a strong fermentation culture, and general exposure to sour foods because of the Jewish traditions around it. Especially with foods like Reubens. Were you guys exposed to those foods from a young age?
Iversen: The whole Jewish deli culture is huge here. I really liked pickled tomatoes a long time ago. I had gone to places like Second Avenue Deli, and as soon as you sit down they give you a big platter of pickles and I always liked the tomatoes. I really like half-sour pickles, too. I never really thought of it as being very East Coast, but I’ve been able to eat pickles since as long as I have been in New York.
We have stuff like sauerkraut and, increasingly, the more Asian fermented products like miso and kimchi, but generally the world of fermented foods is relatively small. How do people respond to fermented and sour foods in New York?
Iversen: I guess there has always been cooked sauerkraut, but the whole raw part of it and making it yourself seems new to me. It’s so established here that there are the people who only want to eat it raw and make the sauerkraut, and have it be in the refrigerator section. But I guess with pickles, if I think about it now, they were in barrels and they were definitely open when I was getting them.
Prepping sauerkraut for the crock (photo: © Kirby and Kraut)
Have you guys noticed a community developing around people who are experimenting and practicing fermentation?
Iversen: It’s amazing to see how much of a fermentation community there is on Instagram, and in our [community supported agriculture (CSA)] we can buy fermented food and there is a woman doing kombucha in our CSA. It’s amazing to see how much of it is going on, especially over the last year or so.
Tschampel: Something we talk about often is how radically the computer has changed our lives, and the internet in particular, but Eric was macrobiotic, when he was in high school, and finding foods to fit his diet was a challenge.
Iversen: I was 16 and it was like 1990 so it was much before the internet. I remember trying to become vegetarian and macrobiotic through books. I got brown books from the health food store. I could only get a couple, and it was good enough to have a health-food store. But I had people telling me I was going to die if I didn’t eat meat and stuff like that, and the contrast between that and being able to find out so much about any type of food that you are interested in, and so quickly, through the internet is really eye-opening to me. And it’s been the same with fermented food; there’s just so much more now about it.
Tschampel: It’s just so much easier to tap into communities of people that are interested, and that dovetails with what I think is just a greater cultural awareness of what we are consuming. The way that diet is so closely linked to overall health and well being. There is a huge community and it’s so easy to access because of the tools that we have today.
There seems to be quite a community around what you guys are posting on Instagram. What has that been like?
Iversen: I’m impressed, because on Instagram people will write incredibly long things about ferments they make and I can’t believe their thumbs could do that. We had this conversation with this one woman and she was writing pages of stuff. She was in Florida, and goes to estate sales and buys wine coolers so she can store her ferments at cellar temperatures. I thought that was really interesting because we really want to get a cellar at some point if we every leave the city. She was talking about this and was going on about recipes.
Tschampel: We couldn’t believe she was doing that in Florida with those temperatures, hence the wine coolers from the estate sales.
Iversen: Part of the thing, too, about Instagram, is so much of it is like them saying, “I just did this,” and then we say that looks really interesting, and then we start a conversation about what they did. It’s so immediate that way.
It seems like a lot of people still think of fermented foods as being rotten or gross. What has the response been to what you guys are doing?
Tschampel: To this day, whenever we talk to somebody who’s new to the idea of fermentation, or we’re being interviewed, one of the questions we get is “Does it smell really bad?”
Iversen: Even when we started, I had a similar experience. I went on my trip to the biodynamic farm in August, and when I came back it was really hot in the apartment so sauerkraut was done in like four days. I remember it was out on the counter and we waited about a week and I didn’t know if I could eat it. I had my little green florescent book, so we kind of went through that, too. In New York, fermentation has so caught on and we have friends, like I have one who emailed and said she was following our blog and then listed this tremendous amount of fermenting she’s been doing in her life. I don’t remember a lot of people thinking we were crazy, although I do remember my niece and nephew thinking it was a little strange.
Tschampel: It’s worth a little preface that Eric is an amazing chef, and I have a huge appetite, so between the two of us there’s a lot of cooking and seeking out and trying new culinary experiences.
Iversen: We’re also pretty used to eating strange things around people who also like strange things.
Tschampel: For people who know us and who knew we had gotten interested and involved in this community, I don’t think it was that much of a surprise. And I think there’s an awareness within New York, specifically, of this trend, but maybe in the midwest it might be a little bit different but we’re here in New York.
Kirby and Kraut’s products, recipes and blog can be found on their website. They are also on Instagram and Facebook.
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